Cerca:g machine

DOWNFALL is the first album under the name SAITO created by Lena Saito, aka Galcid, and produced by accomplished analog synthesizer guru, Hisashi Saito, aka Lena’s husband. Having descended from a long line of Japanese sword-smiths, the industrial sound of smashing steel is embedded in Lena’s DNA and reflected in her music, however there are also refined, hypnotic tones showing a side with more finesse. The music itself is not scored and is predominantly improvised. Words and vocals are ad libbed as well. Sometimes the machines respond as if through telekinesis, altogether emitting a sound which can be categorized somewhere in the range between modern experimental dance music and something possibly making more sense to enlightened minds a thousand years in the future.




There is a new addition to the forge of talents of Mille Plateaux, a Japanese musician by the name of Saito whose album has been released on the label under the title of Downfall. After a whole series of releases under the signature tag clicks & cuts, there comes out a work, much more suited for a dance hall, that is different in terms of the genre from everything that has been published so far.
Like a bucket of ice-cold water poured over the head, erratic agressive hardcore rhythms pour all over the audience in the first track, interrupted only by grinding noises and minimalistic technogenic clicks.
Downfall won't fail to infect even the most experienced music connaisseur with its out-of-control energy, while offering a wide range of techniques: at times, robotic voices, one second long fragments of looped melodies and many other audio gimmicks.
Lena Saito (that is the author's name) is not afraid of conducting experiments in her chemical laboratory, freely mixing sound reagents without taking any precautions. It feels like, this new chemical substance, that she has been working on so thoroughly, contains quite a long list of ingredients, although its main component is the various rhythm breaks.
The synthesizer part of Red Hammer sounds in the best traditions of the acid style, and the rhythm section is akin to African tribal dances of the future. Downfall is absolutely unrelenting in its concept.
The melody of the composition Nucleosome is a little bit like the melancholic IDM of the 00s, finding itself secondary to the dominating, yet again convoluted rhythmical web meticulously woven by Saito.
This album can be definitely named as a big contender aspiring to start a new golden era of Mille Plateaux, and Saito as the hidden treasure of the label that can challenge even the veterans for the right to be the headliner.

Tape / Cassette

Ferdinand Domes is an all-round electronic music producer with a current focus on sound design and ambient tracks. Horror Childs Orient is a collection of live drum machine and syntheziser jams that were created live in Ferdinand’s studio. All tracks are a result of a flow in the moment, creating a sonic scene rather than an arranged track. The result is a collection of atmospheric rhythms, grooves and ambience. The focus is on the individual sounds and the characters of the different machines in Ferdinand’s collection; such as drum sounds from the MFB522 and TR626, synth lines from the Kawai 1M, Yamaha PSS380 and Mikrokorg. All run through tape decks and tweeked with Portastudio and guitar pedals creating a raw and warm analog sound.

Running the anything goes travelling warehouse rave "Fusion mes Couilles"
Emma DJ and Ishaq have created a unique situation with their party series in Paris. The two have been able to do what not many have, which is create a party environment strictly on their own terms, with no outside influence, no pandering to agents or the trends of the day and no outside money rearing its head trying to influence. This endeavor is no small feat considering the oversaturated and bland nitelife climate over the last years in the city. The result of their hard work, has been a large scale dedicated fanbase that trust them, hands down.

Over these years both Emma DJ and Ishaq had been working independently on their own productions as well, with Emma DJ recently releasing a slew of tapes in a hyperactive, machine gun manner, while Ishaq makes his first appearance on wax here.
On the "Fusion" split lp we get four tracks from Emma DJ on the a-side and four tracks from Ishaq on the b-side...both artists bring their unique takes on modern dance music on each side of the record from gnarled acid, to tweaked IDM, to broken techno, or ADD chopped guitar loop beats, this is a truly unique release documenting the sound of the top crew in the Paris underground.
Artwork licensed from NYC street photographer Richard Sandler

Electronica duo Echaskech have been part of the Balkan Vinyl family since the very first releases back in 2010, but this is their debut solo outing. A mini-album of deep space electronica and cosmic ambience. A soundtrack across our solar system and interstellar travel onwards for 27 million light years.

Available on a limited edition of 30 hand-numbered cassettes.


A1: Dawn Over The Red Planet
A2: Kuiper Belt Life Support
A3: Andromeda
A4: Oort Cloud
A5: Machine Code
B1: Into Eta Carinae
B2: Disorder
B3: Pluto At Night
B4: Onset Of Panic
B5: Escape From Tau Ceti
B6: Messier 63

It's been four years since Sweatbox Dynasty, the fourth solo LP from Pennsylvanian experimentalist TOBACCO. In that time, Tom Fec's project has toured with Nine Inch Nails, provided the theme song to HBO series Silicon Valley, and teamed with Aesop Rock for a collaborative album as Malibu Ken. He now returns to Ghostly International for Hot Wet & Sassy, a full-length album oozing with his most playful and approachable songs to date, which, conversely, express notions of antilove, self-hate, and disappointment in others. Pop impulses have always surged beneath the surface of his sound - blown-out bass, analog synths, drum machines, and Fec's unmistakable analog gurgle and hiss - here they've bubbled to the top. "I feel like it's the most I've been able to refine what I'm doing," says Fec. "For the past decade I've had this motherfxcker on my shoulder that makes me pick away at structure and melody. Purposely covering up moments because I can. That really came to a peak on Sweatbox. So I wanted the opposite this time. Write the songs without ripping them in half. I went from 'what would the Butthole Surfers do?' to 'what would Cyndi Lauper do?'" And what would Trent Reznor do? Fec found his answer straight from the source. Their collaborative track, "Babysitter," fuses their voices into one deranged presence: "I'm the new babysitter," they alert, before pivoting into a menacingly saccharine bridge. The track tumbles on a tom fill, then a punishing synth line rips into a cacophony of drums and feedback like a lawnmower gnawing through the living room carpet. "This was new for me, but I wanted to write a song that was everything I am and have been, and then like one notch further. Trent was the notch further," adds Fec. The collaboration is a work of alchemy seamlessly blending TOBACCO's trademarks with Reznor's industrial rust and sonic gore. Downcast, sincere, woozy, "Jinmenken" might be the closest Fec has come to a ballad. "Maybe you can find me down the line," his vocoded delivery bounces along the beat. "It's me trying to write a Jets song," says Fec. Album opener "Centaur Skin" presents the stylistic concoction that has been the TOBACCO MO from the beginning, crossing dreamy melodic shimmer with the sinister tones and slime. This has become easier to digest, but also far more potent. A motorik beat steadies the track's galloping arpeggio, acting as a springboard for Fec's dark ruminations as well as an uncharacteristically crystalline synth solo. "It's my feel good self hate anthem. Don't worry, I'm good. It was fun to write." TOBACCO hasn't been reinvented, but it has been refined and distilled. Brighter, sharper, and far more dangerous because of it. Hot Wet & Sassy is practically staring at the sun without shades and feeling those corneas roast. Everything looks good as your vision fades. The pop-forward structures exert their undeniable hooks with baneful precision, pulling listeners into their clutches; once there, sugary melody rewards submission.

Speedcore crazyness is back... USN legendary label restarts their Project, full of olskool head and newskool boyz !
Superb tune.. .crazyness at its max from the ultimate guitar heroes to the dirty minimalists machineguns...

DO NOT MISS THIS UNIQUE PEARL !

180g black vinyl Star Birth and downloadcode for "Star Birth" and "Star Death". Gatefold.

'Star Birth' is a flung fisherman's net, mighty in scope, irrevocable as looking up from the stone floor of a cathedral – there is space, yet there is profound intimacy from the immediacy of the lyrics, our thoughts rattling around like panicky goldfish. Race has taken aspects of areas
previously explored, and made a quantum leap into the unknowable. With opening track Can't Make This Up, the gauntlet is flung down – 'what is need, what is greed / it's a new crush, the brain trust/ hive mind rewrite rewind/ falsehood streaming'

'Star Birth' is international maverick and music icon Hugo Race's 15th album with his band of True Spirits. It's a double album and the twin album's name is 'Star Death'. Star Birth was recorded during Australia's bushfire summer apocalypse of 2019 and mixed as the 2020 covid-19 pandemic hit. When the stars align it all makes sense, Hugo explains, adding that one oceanic evening while writing the album a bright star exploded right before his eyes, the sign of a sudden end and a new beginning...

Hugo's writes of trials, tribulations, hopes, fears, heartaches, loves, losses, highs and lows – 'everyday I die a little bit more, in a thousand ways I fight my little wars – and he sings with exquisite pathos and depth, like he's singing just for you about the times in which we live –
political disasters, our planet, the absence and the presence of spiritual values, broken promises, cracked hearts and if any of it really matters anyway. With hell raising lyrics like,Expendable, you'd have to wonder if anyone of us will make it through alive – 'hey sister, are
we all expendable? nobody wins, but so many of you think they do / don't try to fool yourself people, deep down you know the truth - everybody gets their one hot shot but no one's bullet proof'. But then The Rapture reminds us that there will always be stars dying in the glory of
new life – 'give us this day comfort and bread / implant in us the living word / empower us with divine love and deliver us from evil / for you are the one true light / the power and the glory / forever /amen'

Hugo's True Spirit deliver a lush, sonic love letter of rock, electronica and dramatic orchestration, based in blues, hypnotic repetition and sonic exhilaration. Michelangelo Russo is a huge part of this atmosphere; his approach to music is that of an artist with a palette of
mysterious implements and machinery, but the entire band and production is incredible from start to finish. Star Birth is 48 minutes of mind expanding, mind blowing, heel tapping tunes, with its sister album 'Star Death', a dub version of remixes that will send you searching for
your own exploding star somewhere in the sky…

You have reached the Infolines. Tonight, we send you on a journey packin’ east to play in the magnificent halls where thespians and rock & roll once played. ‘The Theatre’ features a compilation of cuts that inspire those who listen to sweat in the soon to be humid weather of Detroit.

Bendersnatch is back again, this time with their funky groove ‘Vice Versa’, tooled as a call to the dance floor with a kick that cuts, and bleeps reminiscent of the second wave of techno. Remote Viewing Party brings us a break beat rhythm joined by instrumentalists Ezuch & Bcota with ‘Outpost’. The duo brings shows us their depth creating an atmosphere that will bring you chills, and tears that you will probably think is sweat running down your face. Newcomer Dev-Lish is joined by Maxlow with their head banger ‘Faith In The Machine, in a collaboration inspired by the Detroit birthed genre ‘sludge’. Evil grinding tones with huge bass and dark vocals will make you want to breath. Last, but not certainly least is Francois Dillinger. This artist has been churning out his art and making waves in the electro and techno communities. He brings to the table ‘Lost Loops’ with nothing short of huge bass, large spatial tones designed to hit all frequency ranges leaving room for the crowd to breath while being taken on a journey.

As always, keep an eye on this space and be sure to call in for the waypoint to the party.

Electro Transmissions 003, nothing to say about this assassin called Electro Nation that you don't already know. This EP contains four tracks produced during the lockdown, each track is full of analog synths, drum machines and vocoder. Very limited units, this time on splatter colored vinyl, packed in a really nice way as we have come to know by the Fundamental crew!

From their early days hosting parties in Oxford through to the huge success of their two-part ‘Everything Not Saved Will Be Lost’ album, Foals have consistently explored their interest in dance and electronica. Now the band chart the most essential remixes from their career so far as they share the new remix package ‘Collected Reworks Vol 1’.

The tracks featured on ‘Collected Reworks’, are a compilation from an eclectic range of artists who have uncovered new angles to Foals’ discography. It includes one of their earliest remixes, from Ewan Pearson who blends Balearic bliss into ‘Olympic Airways’, as well as Solumun’s huge version of ‘Late Night’, which has been viewed over 50 million times at YouTube. Another standout moment is Hot Chip’s inventive interpretation of ‘My Number’.

‘Collected Reworks Vol. 1’ has been launched with Hot Since 82’s brand new remix of ‘Into The Surf’. The tech house producer / DJ behind ‘Buggin’’ and ‘Restless’ subverts the track from its original desolate beauty into something fresh and invigorating. The relentless driving beat maximises its energy throughout its eight minute duration, while its progressive leanings are given some unexpected throwback flavour with ‘80s style sax.

Timeless periods of industrial rhythm: Diarmaid O Meara and Kucera collaborate to release ‘Shadowmen’ vinyl on Gobsmacked Records

Nightclubs around Europe are shut. Even in Berlin, the clubbing capital of the world, nightlife has been reduced to a simmer. “But that doesn’t mean we can’t have a good time and connect via timeless periods of electrifying and industrial rhythms”, said Irish producer and DJ Diarmaid O Meara. Together with long-time Gobsmacked techno stalwart Kucera, the two have dropped their latest vinyl ‘Shadowmen’.

The collaboration has derived from long sessions in the Gobsmacked cavern studios in Berlin. The result: A 12” that is laid out in the style of the perfect rave – with a breakbeat electronica entry that promotes procrastination, freakish, and intensely introverted thoughts created through pulsating rhythms and ghostly frequencies, industrial rave sounds for those moments of release.

Partying is a huge part of Berlin’s identity

By listening to the vinyl featuring a dark rhythm, it becomes obvious that the duo has been heavily influenced by underground techno nights in Berlin, and also regularly sharing the stage together at international events. With the pandemic-mandated closure of clubs stretching through the summer, however, playing gigs and festivals is no longer an option. Hence, illegal parties have sprung up to fill the gap and infuriated some public health officials and politicians, also in Berlin.

“Partying is still a huge part of the city’s identity”, continued Diarmaid O Meara who has been living in Berlin for over a decade and also organising parties all over the city. “Raves are a much-needed way to blow off steam after a period of isolation but we have to consider a more proactive approach, for instance district authorities making public spaces available to party organisers under conditions that ensure hygiene measures are maintained.”

Although there has been no shortage of digital music events either since the pandemic began, clubbing is more than just watching a DJ set. “Rather it’s about the unique space that’s created by artists and the crowd that are pulled together by music”, said Kucera who has been destroying dance floors across Europe with his live sets since 2004. “In times when people are still feeling more isolated than ever, our latest vinyl with the accompanying music video aims to bring a sense of connectedness and community during the lockdown.” The video imagery has been recorded live using Kuceras machine pattern triggering whilst performing the tracks live.

Unwavering dedication to the culture of counter-culture

The name ‘Shadowmen’ reflects the work both artists have contributed constantly and consistently to the scene over the past two decades with unwavering dedication to the culture of counter-culture. The artwork, in classic Gobsmacked style, comes with a tip of the cap to the global elite who have been successfully driving humanity off a cliff. “We’ve thrown a little apparent illuminati symbol in there for those who’ve been confined too long at home and on YouTube for the past 6 months”, said Diarmaid O Meara.

Both artists are working on a multitude of new tracks and events for the post-Covid era. Of particular interest is Kuceras live visual show for Gobsmacked, with visuals triggered from his machine live-set patterns. This is something he has been wanting to experiment with for a long time now and it started to take shape in the form of visual hallucinations of industrial areas and trains he had been filming while traveling across Europe before the world stopped functioning properly due to Covid-19. Diarmaid O Meara has quite a few tricks up his sleeve, including a new politically inspired alias, where both artists will take centre stage in some wacky antics.

"Secretsundaze continue their quest to uncover amazing new music with the signing of exciting young Dominican artist Boundary. At just 19 years old Boundary aka Josue Suero makes music that is brimming full of ideas and influences that belie his young age. The 'Interlazados' EP is his debut release for a UK label.

Taking cues from his fascination with video game music, his first real gateway to electronic music, the four track EP showcases Boundary's melodic sensibilities and ear for a killer rhythm.ALead track 'Opticamente Avanzando' unwinds over 12 minutes of deep, mesmeric melodic, contemplative electronica with hints of 90's UK rave influences.ACheck the grins when the killer bassline drops half way through!A

The glossy melodies, jazzy motifs and hip-tugging bass of 'OP.AV' and the breakbeat house of 'Interlazados' channel more lo-fi, ambient house influences but all sent through that unique Boundary filter. Finally, the brain-warming, hypnagogic, tempo-changing rhythms of 'Planos de Ausencia Casualidad' could be the EP highlight and recalls the work of Lone and Actress.

You could listen to these tracks and be mistaken for thinking this is an artist who has maybe been lost in the throws of extended Villalobos DJ set or the deep pads of old Sun Electric records, but as an artist who is an outsider to the European dance scene, his inspiration comes from closer to home, as Boundary explains:

"For this EP I was interested to see if i could hit close to the feelings i have when I listen to certain video game music, how I could convey the amazing and deep storytelling in these songs. I really wanted them to feel like a ride/adventure. 'Opticamente Avanzando' ('Optically Advancing' in English) for me is like a venture into a machine that analyses a bunch of electronic music genres and it outputs as many different variations of these genres it can, each with their own little quirk/details, creating something unique in the process."

With previous releases on LA based label, Point Records, and Paris' Third Try label (Axel Boman, SFV Acid) Boundary's emergence represents a promising prospect for the electronic music world and 'Interlazados' another essential release on Secretsundaze."

The multi-media project Kraftwerk was started in Düsseldorf, Germany 1970 by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider. They set up their electronic Kling Klang Studio where they conceived and produced all Kraftwerk albums.

Kraftwerk created the soundtrack for the digital age of the 21st century. AUTOBAHN 1974, RADIO-ACTIVITY 1975, TRANS EUROPE EXPRESS 1977, THE MAN-MACHINE 1978, COMPUTER WORLD 1981, TECHNO POP 1986, THE MIX 1991, TOUR DE FRANCE 2003. Their compositions, using innovative techniques, electronic sounds and synthetic voices combined with computerised rhythms, had a major musical influence on Electro, Hip Hop, Techno and Synth-Pop. 

The multi-media project Kraftwerk was started in Düsseldorf, Germany 1970 by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider. They set up their electronic Kling Klang Studio where they conceived and produced all Kraftwerk albums.

Kraftwerk created the soundtrack for the digital age of the 21st century. AUTOBAHN 1974, RADIO-ACTIVITY 1975, TRANS EUROPE EXPRESS 1977, THE MAN-MACHINE 1978, COMPUTER WORLD 1981, TECHNO POP 1986, THE MIX 1991, TOUR DE FRANCE 2003. Their compositions, using innovative techniques, electronic sounds and synthetic voices combined with computerised rhythms, had a major musical influence on Electro, Hip Hop, Techno and Synth-Pop. 

The multi-media project Kraftwerk was started in Düsseldorf, Germany 1970 by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider. They set up their electronic Kling Klang Studio where they conceived and produced all Kraftwerk albums.

Kraftwerk created the soundtrack for the digital age of the 21st century. AUTOBAHN 1974, RADIO-ACTIVITY 1975, TRANS EUROPE EXPRESS 1977, THE MAN-MACHINE 1978, COMPUTER WORLD 1981, TECHNO POP 1986, THE MIX 1991, TOUR DE FRANCE 2003. Their compositions, using innovative techniques, electronic sounds and synthetic voices combined with computerised rhythms, had a major musical influence on Electro, Hip Hop, Techno and Synth-Pop. 

The multi-media project Kraftwerk was started in Düsseldorf, Germany 1970 by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider. They set up their electronic Kling Klang Studio where they conceived and produced all Kraftwerk albums.

Kraftwerk created the soundtrack for the digital age of the 21st century. AUTOBAHN 1974, RADIO-ACTIVITY 1975, TRANS EUROPE EXPRESS 1977, THE MAN-MACHINE 1978, COMPUTER WORLD 1981, TECHNO POP 1986, THE MIX 1991, TOUR DE FRANCE 2003. Their compositions, using innovative techniques, electronic sounds and synthetic voices combined with computerised rhythms, had a major musical influence on Electro, Hip Hop, Techno and Synth-Pop. 

"Vapor City" ist das gefeierte Debütalbum von Travis Stewart als Machinedrum welches erstmals 2013 erschien und seit einigen Jahren nicht mehr erhältlich ist. Anlässlich der Veröffentlichung seines neuen Albums “A View Of U” veröffentlicht Ninja Tune eine limitierte Neuauflage des Klassikers auf goldenem Doppelvinyl mit Artwork von Dom Flannigan and Eclair Fifi.

"Vapor City" ist ein Moloch, eine Metropole entstanden in Travis Stewarts Träumen, die ihn schon ein Leben lang verfolgen. Immer wiederkehrende Träume brachten ihn so oft in diese imaginäre Stadt, so dass er diese Viertel für Viertel beschreiben kann und das illusorische Metropolis auch für seine Hörer endlich erfahrbar macht. Das Album ist eine detaillierte Stadtkarte aus Sound-Landschaften, die es jedem ermöglichen sich in "Vapor City" zurechtzufinden - oder auch darin verloren zu gehen. Nach Veröffentlichungen auf LuckyMe, Planet Mu, und Hotflush Records und seinem hochgelobten Album "Room(s)" aus 2011 bastelte Stewart nicht nur an Nebenprojekten wie JETS (mit Jimmy Edgar) oder etlichen Remixen, sondern auch an der Vertonung seiner Vision.

Repress!

Summer's in the air, and with impeccable timing, Bawrut returns with his fourth EP for Ransom Note Records! From ‘Ciquita’ to ‘Rumba’ to ‘Three Sounds’, the Madrid-based producer has been providing DJs with off-kilter dance floor ammunition for years now, amassing a dedicated following in the process. Out 13th September on 12” and digital, the Pronto Arpeggio EP is arguably his biggest and best collection to date. It’s certainly his silliest, kicking things off with a frankly absurd title track. Clocking in at almost 11 minutes, ‘Pronto Arpeggio’ is a prog techno labyrinth of fakeouts, tempo switches, thwacking kickdrums, and huge synths like if Giorgio Moroder did the music for Tomorrow’s World . So yeah, not your average mid-set toilet break tool (although if you want to use it for that, we won’t judge you). ‘Shooreee’ is classic Bawrut with a psychedelic twist, like spiking your own Negroni with mescaline. This sweaty, slow-burn acid weapon bides its time before erupting into a potent payoff. ‘Atchu’ carves its way through laser bleeps and dub FX, built around an unforgettable vocal sample that’ll be lodged in your skull for months whether you like it or not.

When it came to the remixes, we thought it was only right to enlist some of Bawrut’s biggest supporters. KiNK chisels ‘Pronto Arpeggio’ into a vlean slab of high-velocity machine funk, while Ruf Dug teases out the gentler side of ‘Shooreee’, resulting in a melodic track that feels tailor- made made for Mediterranean sunsets.

Bawrut absolutely ruled the festivals in 2018 with ‘More Cowbell’ and we’re expecting more of the same this year as he continues to go from strength to strength. Forza!

Legowelt has been a key figure in the Dutch electronic music scene since the early nineties, steadily relea­sing timeless music that merges the pioneering sounds of Detroit and Chicago with idiosyncratic sci-fi fascinations. "Unconditional Contours" captures Legowelt's stint at the Swiss Museum for Electronic Music Instruments (SMEM), after he was invited to be the first artist in residence at the institution's "Playroom" project.

Legowelt visited SMEM in Fribourg, Switzerland, in early 2019 to explore the collection and record music. Possessing an extensive collection of synthesizers himself, he used hand-picked synthesizers from the museum's archive: the rare Farfisa Synthorchestra, the EVS-1 Evolution, the "shittiest rompler ever made", amongst many others. The 10-track album "Unconditional Contours" is both a probe into the vast collection of SMEM, and a display of Legowelt's well established composi­tional qualities. Leaving ample space for new sounds to unfold, Legowelt invokes gentle trips, brooding excursions, bleep heavy soundscapes, and reimagined elements of dance music classicism.

SMEM and -OUS are launching the "smem+ous" series to document the "Playroom" residencies. A limited edition of this album was already sent out to early supporters of the "Playroom". Founded in 2016 and based on a collection of more than 5000 synthesizers, organs, drum machines and effects that had been collected over a 35 year period by Klemens Niklaus Trenkle, SMEM offers residencies, studio sessions, talks and workshops.

Rian Treanor returns to Planet Mu for his raw and energetic second album "File Under UK Metaplasm". The enigmatic, sweaty energy of Tanzanian singeli and Chicago footwork are juxtaposed with slick, high-def bass weight which sits at the centre of the album. Opening track 'Hypnic Jerks' is the perfect example of this, with crinkled percussive loops cut through by machine-gun kicks and acidic wobbles. Elsewhere, 'Vacuum Angle' takes Sheffield's Warp-ed legacy and brings it crashing into the future, with rhythms collapsing into static and noise but never deconstructing or losing the flow. 'Debouncing' meanwhile folds gliding square synths into rattling dancehall kicks, joining the dots between SND, Equiknoxx and Wiley with a neon Sharpie. "It's using all those formulaic dance structures but just slightly mangled or messed up," he says. "I'm still focused on making dance music for clubs, but how far can you push that before it's just no."