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For Susanna, nothing happens in a vacuum. Every creative act responds to what's come before. And by exploring this dialogue, we can learn new things about ourselves and the world. This idea has inspired the Norwegian artist throughout her near two1decade career. It's behind her unforgettable covers of classic songs and her interpretations of the paintings of Hieronymous Bosch. And it found its purest expression on 2020's Baudelaire & Piano, a stripped back song cycle setting texts from the 19th century French poet's The Flowers of Evil. In Elevation, its followup, Susanna's engagement with Baudelaire's work blossoms into a collaborative enterprise, combining tape, spoken word and song. The result is a unique musical conversation spanning centuries and disciplines; a "time travelling" project, as Susanna puts it, that moves between creative dimensions. She brings collaborators back into the process, nurturing connections made over a series of Baudelaire & Piano live shows presented in 2020 and 2021. Composer1improviser Delphine Dora offers teasing renditions of the original French texts, layering spoken recitation and otherworldly singing in a set of atmospheric vignettes. And tape recorder soundscapes from Stina Stjern-familiar from Susanna's Hieronymous Bosch project Garden of Earthly Delights (2019)-frame the album with hiss, hum and soft fingers of melody, like mist settling on a landscape. These contributions deepen the album's mystery and its evocative power. The result is an engrossing interleaving of sounds and registers; and, as Susanna describes it, "an intuitive and collective ceremony of the ethereal and mystical in life." Elevation features work by American occultist artist Cameron (1922-1995), an adherent of Aleister Crowley's Thelema movement. Her illustrations "Witch Woman", "Pan" and "Danse" adorn the release, which will be available on cassette as well as in the usual digital, CD and vinyl formats.Oslo-based artist Susanna has released music as Susanna and the Magical Orchestra and 'just' Susanna since 2004, through labels like Rune Grammofon, ECM Records and her own outlet SusannaSonata. She has collaborated with artists like Jenny Hval, Bonnie 'Prince' Billy and John Paul Jones, highly active with different projects, songwriting/composing, and making personal interpretations of other people's songs.

Both noted for strikingly forward-thinking bodies of solo work dating back to the 1990s, the duo of Andrew Pekler & Giuseppe Ielasi - collaborators for the better part of a decade - reemerge with 'Palimpsests’, their first outing with Shelter Press. Built from deconstructed layers of texture, tone, and arrhythmic percussiveness, the album’s 2 sides distill 6 years of work into 9 splintered, airy reimaginings of minimalism - each surprising, creatively rigorous, and startlingly beautiful - that rest at the outer reaches of contemporary electroacoustic practice and musique concrète.

Based in Berlin and Milan respectively, Andrew Pekler and Giuseppe Ielasi have individually carved singular paths across numerous disciplines within experimental music for more than 20 years, each deploying sampling, synthesis, and acoustic sources to weave their own, distinct worlds of sonorous abstraction. Brought together by years of friendship and a shared devotion to layered texture and complex, fractured structure, the pair first joined their creative energies in 2013, a collaboration that culminated as the LP, ‘Holiday For Sampler’, issued by Planam.

'Palimpsests’, the duo’s second outing, draws its material from a series of improvisations made by the Pekler and Ielasi in Milan during 2015. Over the ensuing six years, those recordings would undergo various transformations - cut, reworked, sampled, and added to by each artist, working at geographic distance between Berlin, Kyoto and Monza - before culminating, like the album’s title suggests, as a unique manifestation of musical palimpsest; “an object reused and altered, while still bearing visible traces of its earlier form”.

With each of the album’s compositions nodding toward a city with which Pekler and Ielasi hold biographical connections, 'Palimpsests’ constructs sound as poetic metaphor; a series of ghosts - traces of memory, image, and action - cut and reassembled, in cycling permutations, before been set into action at a glacial pace with layered, transparent forms.

Defined by remarkable restraint and pointillistic precision, across the album’s two sides Pekler and Ielasi weave the fractured remnants of their sessions - reduced to glitches and warbling fragments of texture and tonality - into pulsing expanses of spatial ambiance that defy imagism, blur the boundaries between the synthetic and organic - reducing their sources to a series of unknowns - recast the boundaries of electroacoustic practice on markedly singular terms.

Shelter Press is thrilled to present 'Palimpsests’, another brilliant outing from the duo of Andrew Pekler and Giuseppe Ielasi. Issued in a limited edition of 500 copies on black vinyl, with artworks on printed inner and outer sleeves by Traianos Pakioufakis.

Diving into the archives of Alter Ego - the Italian experimental ensemble of Manuel Zurria, Paolo Ravaglia, Aldo Campagnari, Francesco Dillon, Oscar Pizzo, and Eugenio Vatta - Die Schachtel is thrilled to present Microwaves, a never before released body of recordings of works composed by Atli Ingólfsson, Giovanni Verrando, Yan Maresz, and Riccardo Nova, made with Pan Sonic (Mika Vainio and Ilpo Vaisanen) in 2005. Resting at the outer reaches of avant-garde chamber and electronic music, the LP’s blistering structures, tones, and textures - plowing forward with frenetic energy - remain radical and ahead of their time, more than 15 years after they were first laid to tape.

A modular chamber ensemble with a pointedly anti-academic approach to music, over the course of its activities - running roughly between 1990 and 2010 - Alter Ego developed a devoted following among some of the most forward thinking voices in experimental music, all the while collaborating widely with artists spanning a vast range of practices and disciplines, including Robin Rimbaud, Philip Jeck, Matmos, Gavin Bryars, Andrew Hooker, William Basinski, David Moss, Alvin Curran, Terry Riley, and near countless number of others.

Alter Ego’s diverse activities can be understood as interventions with the disposition toward formality within contemporary chamber music, often pairing themselves with artists working well beyond their own context as a means to develop highly original interpretations of a specific composer’s work. In 2004, this process led them to instigate a collaboration Pan Sonic, the Finnish duo of Mika Vainio and Ilpo Vaisanen, pioneers of a remarkably distinct form of rhythmic, experimental electronic music, and regarded by many as one of the most visionary and irreverent projects working in the field during the '90s and 2000s.

Initially conceived with Fausto Romitelli in 2004 before being sidelined by the composer’s untimely passing the following year, Microwaves acts, in part, a remembrance in sound, featuring four works by some of his closest friends, the composers Atli Ingólfsson, Giovanni Verrando, Yan Maresz, and Riccardo Nova. Each composition, Ingólfsson’s Snap, Verrando’s Harmonic Domains #3, Maresz’s Link, and Nova’s Thirteen13x8@Terror Generating Deity, have roots in a pallet of samples and fragments drawn by each composer from existing works by Pan Sonic. Upon completion, these compositions then entered into a collaborative process between Mika Vainio and Ilpo Vaisanen (Pan Sonic) and Alter Ego (Manuel Zurria, Paolo Ravaglia, Aldo Campagnari, Francesco Dillon, Oscar Pizzo, and Eugenio Vatta), and were performed collectively by both groups during an extensive tour that year.

Distinct and free-standing, while operating as a seamless whole, the four works encountered across the album’s two sides - built from the sounds of flute, clarinet, violin, cello, piano, electronics, and further treatments - present an engrossing intersection between electronic and acoustic sound that diverges from most standing conceptions of electroacoustic music. Each composer’s carefully rendered structures rise and fall within the startling, conversant interplay between the two groups, finding perfect balance - between the frenetic and restrained - in what can only be regarded as one of the most striking and singularly unique expressions of contemporary chamber music realized during the 2000s.

Vast in scope, visionary in concept and artistry, and sonically engrossing, Die Schachtel is thrilled to present these never before heard recordings from the archives of Alter Ego. Microwaves is available on black vinyl, in a limited edition of 350 copies.

Diving into the archives of Alter Ego - the experimental ensemble of Manuel Zurria, Paolo Ravaglia, Aldo Campagnari, Francesco Dillon, Oscar Pizzo, Fulvia Ricevuto, and Eugenio Vatta - Die Schachtel is thrilled to present Pranam - A(Round) Giacinto Scelsi, a never before released body of recordings interpreting the works of the legendary Italian composer Giacinto Scelsi, made with Matmos (Martin Schmidt and Drew Daniel) in 2005. Resting at the outer reaches of avant-garde chamber and electronic music - moving at a glacial pace of tightly wound energy - Pranam’s two sides radically rethink the terms electroacoustic music in ways that still feel radically ahead of their time, more than 15 years after they were first laid to tape.

A modular chamber ensemble with a pointedly anti-academic approach to music, over the course of its activities - running roughly between 1990 and 2010 - Alter Ego developed a devoted following among some of the most forward thinking voices in experimental music, all the while collaborating widely with artists spanning a vast range of practices and disciplines, including Robin Rimbaud, Philip Jeck, Pan Sonic, Matmos, Gavin Bryars, Andrew Hooker, William Basinski, David Moss, Alvin Curran, Terry Riley, and near countless number of others.

Alter Ego’s diverse activities can be understood as interventions with the disposition toward formality within contemporary chamber music, often pairing themselves with artists working well beyond their own context as a means to develop highly original interpretations of a specific composer’s work. In 2005, this process led them to invite Matmos, the American duo of Drew Daniel, Martin Schmidt - acclaimed for a body of visionary albums at the vanguard of electronic process and sampling - to collaborate on a series of interpretations of works by the legendary Italian composer Giacinto Scelsi.

Realized in collaboration with The Fondazione Isabella Scelsi, which holds Giacinto Scelsi’s archives, and performed at the Festival Roma Europa and the Festival Aeterforum during May of 2005, the album’s four works - Estratti dal Quartetto per archi n.3 (1963), Ko-Lho (1966), Riti: I Funerali di Carlo Magno A.D. 814 (1976), Aitsi (1974) - shift the boundaries of 20th Century chamber music toward markedly new and contemporary terms, incorporating everything from the sounds of the Revox tape machine that Scelsi used to record his own improvisations and processed electronics, to the plastic trumpets used by fans during football matches.

From intertwining, shifting lone-tones that render startling resonances and dissonances, to passages guided by a vast pallet of electronics and flurries of acoustic sounds, joined as a single ensemble, across the two sides of Pranam, Alter Ego and Matmos infuse these four works by Scelsi with humor and playfulness, while retaining all the urgency and rigour with which they were initially composed.

Delicate and meditative, while tightly wound and brooding, Pranam brings the works of Giacinto Scelsi to life in ways that almost no group ever has. Riveting and immersive from start to finish, Die Schachtel is thrilled to present these never before heard recordings from the archives of Alter Ego. Pranam is available on black vinyl, in a limited edition of 350 copies.

Can was founded in 1968 by Irmin Schmidt, Holger
Czukay, Michael Karoli and Jaki Liebezeit who
formed a group which would utilise and transcend
all boundaries of ethnic, electronic experimental
and modern classical music.
This classic album of tracks was recorded at the
beginning of Can’s life and features original
vocalist Malcolm Mooney.
‘Thief’ is now a rejuvenated Can classic having
been covered by Radiohead and since then
discovered by a new generation of fans.
Can’s powerful influence has never diminished and
their indelible mark is apparent in the bands who
freely acknowledge their importance - from
Portishead, James Murphy, New Order, Factory
Floor, Public Image Ltd, Mogwai, Kanye West and
Radiohead - as well as across other disciplines
such as visual art and literature.
“Can are impossible to classify and it’s impossible
to ignore their seismic influence on so many
diverse musical paths” - Richard Hawley
“Can are the most revolutionary band ever” -
Stephen Morris (New Order)
Now available on pink vinyl with digital download
code.

Needle Paw is the first solo album by Nai Palm, the lead singer and composer of R&B future soul outfit Hiatus Kaiyote. A two-time Grammy nominated singer, songwriter and musician from Melbourne, Australia, Nai Palm is a composer, instrumentalist, producer, vocalist and poet who approaches all of these self-taught disciplines with an intuitive, infectious grace. This gift has sent her and her band Hiatus Kaiyote on a journey to sculpt songs that have been received and treasured across the globe. Their success set the stage for Nai’s first solo effort.

Comprised almost entirely of her guitar playing and vocal arrangements, Needle Paw is Nai Palm’s self-imposed challenge to explore the potential for immortality and timelessness within her music by stripping away the produced layers to focus on the element that is closest to the source of the human soul: the voice.

Needle Paw is the rawest glimpse into Nai Palm’s musical world. It is dreamlike, honest, and beautifully transparent, revealing her musical ruminations to listeners with a courageous vulnerability and artistic generosity. Nai sees this album as a reminder to musicians that they don’t have to rely on production to expose their gifts.

Needle Paw features acoustic versions of Hiatus Kaiyote favorites “Atari,” “Mobius,” “When The Knife,” “Molasses,” and “Borderline With My Atoms”, as well as covers of songs by David Bowie (“Blackstar”), Radiohead (“Pyramid Song”) and Jimi Hendrix (“Have You Ever Been (To Electric Ladyland)”).

Outfitted with anthemic romps, tongue-in-cheek pastiches, and percussions that pivot from rolling adventures to rain hitting the windowpane, Intimacy's 'Across the Bridge' marks the artist's fifth release on vinyl and first release on Bouquet.
A grab bag of fun, dancefloor-ready tracks written across 2019, the EP delivers his aesthetic of old computers, sci-fi movies, and science class educational videos configured into deep, spacey line-toting bedroom techno and melancholic house.

The title track features a catchy electroclash-esque (!!!) saw wave bassline, complete with emo Roland D50 strings and bells, all laid over a very beefy electro beat. It crossbreeds a Drexciya strain of low-end thump with a chewy, Eurotrash bassline evoking that time you lost your wallet at Tresor in '98. Strings and bells from the Roland D50 introduce the same euphoric high found in most of the products crawling out of Perdue's lab these days.

'Angelo's House' is a full-forced banger built around a well-traveled sample of Angelo Badalamenti's theme from Twin Peaks, recorded from an Intimacy live set early last year.

The flipside leads with the spiritual acid techno masterpiece 'Datalore 66'. Bubbling basslines hit a boiling point when placed in sequence with flutes showing genetic linkage to the Hartnoll family. Highly reactive material.

'Eternal September' opens a portal to the earliest hours of morning via synthesis of swirling pads and snapping drums. Closing the EP in introspective fashion, the track shows just how much emotional range Intimacy can pull out of decades-old disciplines.

ABOUT THE ARTIST

Parks Perdue is a Memphis-born electronic musician. A culmination of internet research and home listening in the club-barren Tennessee city, his style draws from stoned out Dutch West Coast concept albums, video game soundtracks, and old-school midwest house and techno. Perdue made his vinyl debut under the alias Intimacy in 2016 on the short lived UK, DJ Haus-run label Vector Works. Perdue is now based in Los Angeles, California.

Here is Niall Power’s debut release on Psyko social records, a 5 track EP filled with all sorts of Detroit inspired techno and electro bangers with remixes from some amazing producers such as Lee Holman, Leafeater and Ikeaboy.

Niall Power’s Steel Reinforcement wears it’s classic era Techno and Electro on it’s sleeve. Born out of a cross of diverse backgrounds and disciplines, the Irish based DJ spicing up the current techno aesthetics by adding a pinch of acid, sprinkled with that extra touch of sleaze. Power’s ‘Spinal Fusion’ and ‘Kyphosi’, embodies the visceral secrets of sounds that work the dance floors. Heavily blessed with taste and cursed with extensive dj background. Vicious kicks and snares along with synth and pad elements conjure up a painkiller haze, woozing in and out of consciousness. Teaming up with three huge remixes from Lee Holman |DE|MAR|CATION| Leafeater StickyGround and Ikeaboy D1 Recordings this EP is a great weapon for any techno or electro dj.

For PSR, this is a really exciting first release as it shows they have an in-depth understanding of the modern techno zeitgeist with inspiration from the past to explore all flavours of the genre for the future.

Early support from the likes of Neil Landstrumm, Jamie Behan, Sunil Sharpe, Aubrey, Plural, Cáilin Power and Dave Clarke just to name a few.

Canyons are places of mystery and beauty. The interesting thing is, while they are one of the great wonders in the history of planet earth and attract scientists of all kinds of disciplines, they have also been a popular retreat for artists and musicians. You will have heard of Topanga Canyon, Rickie Lee Jones and Chicago recorded here. Laurel Canyon is even more well known, a mythical place where Crosby, Stills & Nash developed their unique vocal sound while hanging around Mama Cass' place. Or was it in Joni Mitchell's house on Lookout Mountain? Ok, you get the picture. There is something unexplainable, almost magical going on in canyons.

Maybe that's why Andy Platts and Shawn Lee were thinking of "Canyons" when they wrote and recorded their third album as Young Gun Silver Fox. With "West End Coast" and "AM Waves" these two very talented musicians, singers, songwriters, arrangers and producers already explored all things Westcoast, AOR, Softrock and Boogie. But - especially if you are a into the golden age of this sound running from circa 1976 to 1984 - you will be aware that there is no return once you started digging these unconditional musical delights with their timeless compositions, untouchable musicianship and refined arrangements. The great albums from that era appeared when punk broke and the musical establishment was shaken to the ground. Today they sound more up to date than ever. Who would have thought back then?

On "Canyons" Young Gun Silver Fox turned it up to eleven. They are nothing but "Kids" cruising in the fast lane, totally over the top searching for the "Dream Woman", touching down in Tokyo caught in a "Long Distance Love Affair", imagining the theme for a lost 70s TV series starring "Danny Jamaica", being on the winning side in a "Private Paradise", getting deep and soulful in "Things We Left Unsaid" and wondering how to spread "All This Love". Their bass lines, sound layers, brass arrangements and harmony vocals are immaculate. Everything fits perfectly. Just like this. "Who Needs Words" when everything is crystal clear? Exactly!

"Canyons", after all, are magical places of rare beauty. (Mr. Mellow - Porcaroc Club/Mr. Mellow's Sunday Scene/Soho Radio).

Building on the already incredible collection of music so far released on Francis Harris' Kingdoms imprint, Emil Abramyan returns with the stunning 'Movement' album. Abramyan is a Brooklyn based composer, musician, and producer, whose work traverses various styles and disciplines. In this release Emil shares his unique perspective by bringing together his conservatory training as a cellist and his love of electronic music and sound design. Having played the cello on every Francis Harris album, Abramyan now expands his repertoire by playing every instrument, including cello, piano, and electronics. Beginning with 'Flightplan', the album lifts off in sublime fashion. Brooding cellos combine with pianos before subtle rhythms unfold and introduce themselves. 'Winter's' skittering rhythm is combined with pizzicato melodies, clicks and modular synth flurries. Showcasing his versatility, 'Foolky' is a more dance floor oriented cut - a highly percussive groove unfolds and carries along a variety of instrumentation. 4_24 also makes use of shuffling, percussive grooves layered with drone sounds, and more of Abramyan's signature cello.'Fever' sees the brooklynite heading in a more obviously ambient direction, building atmosphere with a mixture of close mic'd experimentation, and beautiful choral fragments.Rounding off this release, label boss Francis Harris reworks 'Flightplan', finding new nuances in the sublime atmosphere, and slowly building up to a subtle, understated groove that takes the track to a different place entirely.

- Astonishing solo debut by acclaimed cellist and composer Lucy - A daring, non-conformist and deviant approach to composition and instrumentation - One side of filigree, multi-layered autobiographical collage-work, the other of raw and phased cello glissandi - RIYL: Mark Leckey, Alvin Lucier, Beatrice Dillon, Nate Young, Valerio Tricoli, Popol Vuh

Lucy Railton is a prolific performer who has appeared on countless recordings and collaborations with many important figures in contemporary music over the last few years. Paradise 94 is, remarkably, her solo debut - featuring archival, location and studio recordings which serve as a time capsule of all the myriad disciplines and influences that have brought her to this point in time. It both plays up to and shatters expectations of her music, which harnesses a duality of energies - acoustic/electronic, real/imagined, iconic/iconoclastic, pissed-off/romantic; out of place and androgynous - resulting in a visceral emotional insight and rare narrative grasp. Variegated, asymmetric, and located somewhere between her usual fields of exploration, Paradise 94 gives free reign to aspects of her creativity that have previously been subsumed into collaborative processes and interpretations of other composers' work. Here, she's free to probe, sculpt and layer her sounds through a much broader range of techniques and strategies, placing particular focus on non-linear structural arrangements and exploring the way her cello becomes perceptibly synthetic through collaging, rather than FX. At every turn Paradise 94 is bewilderingly unique. The A-side unfolds an oneiric, inception-like sequence traversing temporalities, timbres and tones from what sounds like a spectral ensemble playing on a traffic island in Pinnevik, to bursts of rabbit-in-headlights trance arps emerging from meticulously dissected musique concre`te in The Critical Rush, and a collision of masked vocals, string eruptions and a deeply moving, light-headed Bach rendition in For J.R. On the other hand, Fortified Up on side B tests out a far rawer approach, sampling herself playing the same glissandi over and again, which she layers into a sort of perpetual, sickly motion, the Shepard Tone riffing on the listener's psychoacoustic perceptions before calving off into a cathartic dissonant folk coda in its final throes. In the most classic sense, you can only properly begin to f*ck with something from the inside once you truly know it. Railton's dedicated years of service have more than equipped her with the nous and skill to do just that, gifting us with what will no doubt be looked back on as a raw, exposed and important solo debut in years to come.

The sub label of Sonic Groove, 'Sonic Groove Experiments', returns after a 4 year hiatus with a stellar re-release of the Electrowave classic 'Eruption' by Beta Evers. Originally released as a Limited Edition 12' back in 2005 on Beta's own Kommando 6 label. Now in 2017 the original pressing goes for quite a fortune on the record collecting market. Often exceeding €60 for a mint copy. For the first time in a dozen years this release is available on vinyl in its original running order but with very sleak new artwork for the normal asking price of a new store bought 12'.

Beta Evers is Brigitte Enzler from Augsburg, Germany. An artist with a substantial amount of accomplished work to her credit including an early release on the storied Hague label, Cre`me and her side project Black Spider Clan. After ceasing Kommando 6 operations, Beta Evers continues on independently releasing music on her other labels Bodyvolt and Venus Noir. Her most recent release is the 2016 awesome 'Delusion' album on legendary Industrial/EBM pioneer Dirk Ivens prestigious Daft imprint.

The opening track's title serves as a warning, titled 'Don't Be Afraid', a cold introduction led by sinister synth lines soliciting our attention to expertly crafted true analog electronic percussion in the EBM/Dark Electro disciplines. Surreal, deep and seductive vocals lie in the wake at the center of the composition giving us a melancholic piece worthy of deep contemplation during listening on or off the dance floor.

The following track 'Move In My Body Rhythm' continues in the same sinister and dark aesthetic in a more driving manner, this track continues to bring forth energy with a precise beat and rhythm accompanied by acidic synth modulations.

Side B continues to hold the heavy weight of this extended player with the track 'Eruptive' This reference track to the title of the EP. is an electronic/vocal robotic analog circuit breaker suitable for dawn light on the floor. Traditional arsenal of classic analog sounds are arranged and rearranged with sonic manipulation at the test. Mutant dance music for cosmic venues.

The closing track, 'Destination Lost' is comprised of lyrics of urban angst and disturbance whispered out through sultry vocals. Dark minimalist and cinematic cyberpunk breaks reinforced by low drone synth waves and crystals of lysergic analog bleeps drifting along the perimeter. Dead serious wave infected electronics.

This sonic document also serves as a good example of a roots approach to creating music whilst at the same time giving us something entirely innovative. This is as futuristic as it is timeless and that reflects the elements of a masterpiece.

The second EP from Jack Dice sees a huge leap in ambition for the project, a 5 track session that's more addictive, direct and heady than its predecessor.
'Sip Paint' centres around 'Stash's Theme' featuring rapper and producer Stash Marina, a track that deploys crisp triplets and saturated production straddling mainstream signatures on the one hand and a world of analogue/deviant recording techniques on the other. It's an odd, hyper-addictive track - available here in both vocal and instrumental versions.
'Low Glo', 'Kerosene' and 'Radium Dial' are more subdued and immersive; you could draw lines straight through the material here to a number of different projects Twells has been involved with through the last decade, though he seems to benefit immeasurably from Chambliss' presence. The pair find a perfect balance between their respective disciplines, resulting in an EP that at different points throws stylistic references to everything from Prince's Black Album to The Art of Noise, Drake, Philip Jeck and Evian Christ's DUGA 3 sessions - without ever sounding overworked or too knowing, a feat in itself.

Jack Dice is a new project from John Twells and Walkmaster Flex, now releasing their debut EP for Modern Love.
John Twells, amongst very many other things, runs the Type label and has been producing music of various different disciplines and varieties over the last 15 years. Although he's never released anything on Modern Love before, he's a long time friend and associate of the label.
Walker is the manager of Main Attrakionz and has been DJing with them for the last couple of years as the official 'Green Ova DJ'.
'Jack DIce' is fuelled by an interest in bass, Twells being a car audio nerd and Walker having an obsession with 90s southern rap music. These are their first tracks produced together, who know what might follow...