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La Pointe debut on Damian Lazarus’ Secret Teachings with ‘Umbra’, featuring remixes from Nathan Fake and Jonny Rock. The experimental label opens its 2025 schedule on 24th January with the Geneva-based trio’s warping original backed by a pair of late-hours remixes from two of the best in the scene.

Emerging from a confluence of rave culture and artistic mastery, La Pointe make an impressive label debut on Damian Lazarus’ Secret Teachings imprint with the enigmatic ‘Umbra’. The release, set for 24th January, is accompanied by stellar remixes from revered producer Nathan Fake and the ever-versatile Jonny Rock, delivering a sonic journey that transcends the ordinary. La Pointe, a trio formed by Geneva-based techno pioneers Crowdpleaser and Entlet alongside New York City’s Jonny Sender, represents a fusion of cultural and musical legacies. Rooted in the dynamic after-hours scenes of Geneva and New York’s underground club culture, the trio creates music that is both innovative and steeped in tradition. Their studio, located in an old factory by the meeting point of the Rhone and Arve rivers, lends its name—and its industrial inspiration—to their project.

The original mix of ‘Umbra’ is a hypnotic exploration of light and shadow, blending atmospheric melodies with deep, pulsating rhythms—a testament to their ability to craft soundscapes that resonate emotionally and physically. Nathan Fake’s remix ventures into intricate, textural layers, marrying ethereal tones with electronic intensity. Jonny Rock injects a raw, off-kilter groove and late-hours energy into his reinterpretation, blending his eclectic influences from disco, funk, house, and beyond. The genesis of La Pointe is as captivating as its sound. Crowdpleaser and Entlet are celebrated architects of Geneva’s rave scene, running the legendary after-hours party The Shark for over a decade and hosting luminaries like Alexander Robotnik, Boo Williams, and Sonja Moonear. Jonny Sender, a stalwart of New York’s downtown music revolution in the 80s to 00s and bass player of post-punk band KONK, brought his unique perspective honed in venues like Mudd Club to the trio when he moved to France. This debut appearance on Secret Teachings is not just a collection of influences but a narrative woven from decades of underground culture and musical exploration - making it a perfect fit for Lazarus’ label as he continues to champion boundary-pushing artistry, curveball signings and inspired remix curation.

After a ferocious start to 2020, which saw the band land a top 15 album chart position with their debut Mixtape EP, a #1 spot on the UK vinyl chart, #1 in the Scottish album charts, an appearance and sync in a UK-wide multimillion pound Strongbow ad campaign, FIFA21 soundtrack sync and over 30 million streams, The Snuts have announced their raucous, hook laden debut album, W.L. – out 2nd April on Parlophone Records.

The campaign has gone from strength to strength with the band amassing over 100,000 social followers and daytime support from Radio 1 as well as creating an incredible heartfelt video for single Somebody Loves You in partnership with The Scottish Refugee Council with the video’s production budget and all proceeds from downloads of the track going to the charity.

Adored up and down the country for their uninhibited, sweat-drenched live shows, the band have also announced a UK tour for the end of 2021 – totalling over 30,000 tickets including 3 sold out nights at the legendary Barrowland Ballroom in Glasgow with tickets selling out for that and multiple other dates on the tour in minutes.

Hailing from Whitburn, West Lothian, The Snuts have well and truly found their stride on W.L.. Produced by Tony Hoffer (Beck, Phoenix, M83) and recorded at the Firepit London, the album encapsulates the band’s journey from four working class kids growing up with a dream in Whitburn, to becoming one of the UK’s most exciting and vital bands of the new decade. The album opens with the poignant ‘Top Deck’, winding through a voyage of genres including the raw, rousing, hip-hop driven ‘Elephants, heart-wrenchingly honest ‘Boardwalk’, the undeniable pop banger ‘Somebody Loves You’, the hauntingly heartfelt anthem ‘Always’ and the main stage festival ready hymn, ‘All Your Friends’.

Mark Hawkins has had a career in music spanning the past 25 years.
It has encompassed torturing Goa trance ravers with esoteric techno records on Welsh hillsides in the mid '90s, hanging with UK house heads like the DiY and Smokescreen sound-systems around quarries, fields, clubs and pubs in the Midlands, after which he found his initial niche in producing punky techno around the turn of the millennium for labels like Djax Up Beats and Mosquito.
After an eight-year stint producing, releasing and playing out proper underground house music as Marquis Hawkes on labels like Houndstooth and Aus Music, making techno records for DVS1's Mistress imprint and Len Faki's Figure recordings as Juxta Position, alongside other work under the names Contactless and Falcon Black Ops for Unknown To The Unknown, Hawkins now embarks on the next phase of his career, which will gradually amalgamate his broad influences into one unique sound.

KingCats are a German Show Band from West Germany, formed in 1972 first as AristoCats. They became KingCats in 1976. The lineup was Peter "Pit" Kurz and Norbert "Knox" Rieger on vocals and guitar, Theo Wild (and later, Hans-Jörg Koch) on keyboards and vocals, Eberhardt "Lupp" Krieg on bass and vocals, and Rolf Knauss on drums and vocals. French drummer/singer Patrick Buchmann, alias "Sdinganuff", joined the band in 1980 upon recommandation from Claus Backhaus (Studio 2000, Mannheim, Germany) and saxophone superstar Peter Drischel, alias « Pete Tex ». Before Buchmann’s departure to Los Angeles to study at Musicians Institute, he suggested they record an LP to document some of the band’s compositions which led to the original self titled "KingCats" album in January of 1983.

This rare album was recorded and mixed in Strasbourg, France at Omega Studio by sound engineer Francis Adam, the LP showcases a variety of 80’s unique compositions by Buchmann, Kurz and Rieger. The song "Down In California" gently made its way to the public ear since. Luckily, Francis Adam found the original 16 track, 1 inch tape in early 2024 and saved the original project from desintegration. This long awaited discovery led to this freshly edited, remixed and remastered 2024 version of "KingCats". Produced by Francis Adam, Patrick Buchmann and Peter Kurz, no instruments or vocals were added, and no animals or vegetables were harmed during this process. We hope you will like this new limited edition of "KingCats" !

With her new “Let Me Be Your Fantasy” remix package, Anané continues to solidify her position as one of the most talented and charismatic recording artists in the world today. It’s never easy to take on a classic disco tune, which in this case is a song originally released in 1978 by The Love Symphony Orchestra. But working with producers Two Soul Fusion (Louie Vega and Josh Milan), Anané has crafted a new version of this song that retains the glamour of disco while also injecting a raw toughness and rhythm perfectly suited for today’s dancefloors. As is her custom on her remix packages, Anané has pulled together an outstanding team of producers to lay down their own very unique and high impact mixes, including Masters At Work, Dimitri From Paris, Mousse T, Blackchild and Moplen.

The combination of their musicianship and the cutting-edge technology at the studio resulted in a masterpiece of pure, state-of-the-art funk and boogie. The album features all the hallmarks of great 80s music: fresh synths, drum machines, and powerful lead vocals from John Davis. Upbeat tracks like "The Cat (Puma)" and the title track sit comfortably alongside more soulful songs like "Tears" and "Hearts of Gold," while "Dancing Shoes" remains one of the era's catchiest dance tracks.

Still, Shake It - Make It Loose holds a few mysteries. Why was it released under the unusual name J.D. (Puma) Lewis? And what's the story behind tracks like "The Cat"? While J.D. Lewis stood for John Davis Lewis's full legal name, Hudson sheds light on the "Puma" connection: "At the time, I was working as a promotions manager for Puma sportswear. Jörg Dassler, son of Puma founder Rudolf Dassler, was a friend of mine and financed our studio sessions." As said, these sessions took place at Hartmann Digital, a state-of-the-art studio in Untertrubach, Bavaria, where iconic artists like Nena, Yello, Visage, DAF, and Soft Cell recorded.

The use of such an expensive studio would have been out of reach for the two musicians without Puma's backing, which also explains why there is a title like "Dancing Shoes." When we had licensed the track for the Boogie On The Mainline compilation in 2018, we had the chance to speak with John Davis (who sadly passed away in May 2021 due to COVID-19). Davis revealed that there were plans to make a video for the song in collaboration with Puma, but those plans fell through. In the end, the album was signed to the Deggendorf-based Metrovynil label.

Interestingly, the original contract reveals that the first version of the album only contained six tracks. Metrovynil added two more: "Sexy Highschool Lady," a track Davis recorded solo, and "Party Rap" by The Dynamite Two, which had no connection to Davis or Hudson at all. The album's credits also list a "Fred Fiore" as the person "who made all of this possible." Hudson, who sees himself as the producer, has no idea who Fiore was - likely another fabrication from the label. "That's just the kind of thing Metrovynil did," Hudson comments with some regret.

Despite the behind-the-scenes confusion, the music spoke for itself. The original pressing looked and sounded fantastic, featuring a stylish cover shot of John Davis in a sharp suit. Now, with this first-ever vinyl reissue, we're thrilled to include additional photos and more background information in a deluxe gatefold sleeve.

This reissue includes all six tracks from the original Hartmann Digital sessions, plus two bonus tracks. From the original reel tapes, we unearthed additional material that Hudson and Davis produced together in the early to mid-80s. We're excited to share the previously unreleased tracks "Life's A Party," and "Walk Out On Me." The digital version of the reissue will also feature two more songs: "Red Drops" and "Pick It Up Off The Ground."

Shake It - Make It Loose is a classic boogie-funk album that belongs in every serious funk and disco collection. It showcases the undeniable talent of two true musicians and stands as a testament to the friendship between Reg Hudson and John Davis.

Jamwax Records proudly presents this historic reissue, featuring two timeless tracks from The Wailers’ legendary album The Best of The Wailers: "Can't You See" and "Back Out". While these songs have long been cherished as classics, this marks the first time they have ever been available on a 7-inch vinyl single. Even though some books about Bob Marley & The Wailers list them as having been released on 7-inch, I have never seen a copy for sale.

Produced by the visionary Leslie Kong with co-producer Warwick Lyn, the album captures The Wailers at their soulful, raw best. These songs predate the group’s later partnership with Lee Perry and Island Records, offering a purer, more unembellished sound. The harmonies are flawless, the arrangements simple yet deeply powerful, and the performances utterly timeless. "Back Out" highlights Bob Marley's unmistakable voice, brimming with the confidence and charisma that would later make him a global icon. Bunny Wailer and Peter Tosh's harmonies add depth to a track that perfectly embodies the spirit of early reggae. "Can't You See" showcases Peter Tosh on lead vocals, supported by the sublime harmonies of Bob Marley and Bunny Wailer.
These recordings, crafted with a four-track setup and featuring some of Jamaica’s finest musicians—including Mickey ‘Boo’ Richards on drums, Jackie Jackson on bass, and Winston Wright on organ—are testament to a moment in time when reggae was still raw, revolutionary, and evolving.

Recorded at Dynamic Sounds Studios (Kingston, Jamaica), from 29th April until 19th May 1970.
Originally released on August 9th of 1971 by Beverley's Records, 135 b Orange Street, Kingston, Jamaica, West Indies.

Als Meister des melancholischen Heavy Metal sind Avatarium seit 2013 eine einzigartige und beeindruckende musikalische Kraft. Ursprünglich als außerschulisches Projekt der Candlemass-Legende Leif Edling gegründet, haben sich die Stockholmer Doom-Ausreißer seither weit über ihre Wurzeln hinaus entwickelt und sind zu einer der kreativsten Hardrock-Bands des Planeten geworden. Unter der Leitung ihrer Lebenspartner, der Sängerin Jennie-Ann Smith und dem Gitarristen Marcus Jidell, haben Avatarium ihren einzigartigen Weg fortgesetzt und sind auf diesem Weg noch stärker geworden. Vom gefeierten Doom-Purismus ihres selbstbetitelten Debüts bis hin zum detailreichen Rock-Genuss von "Death, Where Is Your Sting?" aus dem Jahr 2022 war jedes Kapitel der Bandgeschichte ein Maßstab für Substanz und Seele in der Heavy-Musik.
Am 24. Januar 2025 veröffentlichen die Schweden nun ihr sechstes Studioalbum, "Between You, God, The Devil & The Dead". Wie bei jedem ihrer vorherigen fünf Alben offenbart das neue Werk bisher unbekannte Schattierungen und Texturen in ihrem klassischen, aber formbaren Sound. Voller gigantischer Riffs und erstaunlicher Melodien, ist "Between You, God, The Devil & The Dead" in den letzten 18 Monaten gereift. Das Album wird auf drei verschiedenen und limitierten Vinyls, als CD-Jewelcase und als limitierte Doppel-CD-Earbook-Edition, mit 36 Seiten exklusivem Inhalt erhältlich sein.

Limitierte orange/weiße Vinyl, in einer Kastentasche mit rauer Haptik und einem glänzendem Silberlack auf Vorder- und Rückseite! Limitiert auf 800 Einheiten.

ntroducing World of Rubber 4, a bold compilation featuring five cutting-edge tracks from trailblazing artists who push the boundaries of sound and embrace the label's signature non-conformity. This collection showcases a wide sonic spectrum, from experimental vocal pieces to club ready floor killers. With work of Indonesia's Senyawa, where vocalist Rully Shabara's electrifying range blends with Wukir Suryadi's processing of (handmade) instruments. Hailing From the UK, MAP 71 offers hypnotic poetry layered over pulsating electronics, driven by Lisa Jayne's surreal lyricism and Andy Pyne's ritualistic rhythms. Swedish experimental techno producer Peder Mannerfelt brings his raw energy and genre-defying sound. Dutch techno pioneer Unit Moebius Anonymous takes a second stab at Juzer, a project by Beau Wanzer and Dan Jugel, delivering heavy hitting industrial-tinged rhythms. Lastly, The Modern Institute brings their avant-garde, deconstructed take on techno, blending industrial noise and playful experimentation to create a truly unpredictable sonic experience. Cut by Simon - The Exchange, pressed on opaque white vinyl, Limited to 200 copies.

Bobbyy is a producer, drummer, and DJ based in Los Angeles. Known for his work with Seattle bands sunking and High Pulp, 2024 sees Bobbyy stepping out as a solo artist, working with the likes of Pink Siifu, Hi Tech, Blvck Svm, and more. Bobbyy’s debut album ‘Buckets’ is an homage to his deep love and understanding of music history, incorporating elements of Chicago House a la Larry Heard, alongside raw, sample-based production reminiscent of Madlib or Daedelus, all the while basking in 808’s.

DIG CURATED the infamous four of this EP in an omnivorous fashion, allowing vinyl wizard Louis the 4th to take us on a ride of stylistic adventure between old and new-school techno wickedry.

Olivia Mendez (the curator behind this EP) picked these gems according to the way she would build her sets; each track corresponding to a distinct part of a blazing journey. Each track being a different color on a powerful, vibrant palette, attesting to the versatility of an artist whose emblem is anonymity - remember Detroit? - and reinvention. The man behind the bandana doesn't shy away from paying homage to the old school while at times enveloping us into a computerized sound chaos - classy as it is.

This selection reveals a side of LTF that hasn't been shown before, catching the ears of a great number of peeps, who could easily find their match here.

"Dilatation" is a chugging techno zinger, with a groove that feels minimal yet keeps expanding through punctured breaks and urging synth enveloped into a sustained air- a kind of tool that mounts the energy to near combustible.

"Almost There" decompresses space into a light-weight, energy saver atmosphere, that fleshes out a brand-new compartment in LTF`s music wallet. Threaded through driving rides and a rhythmic zeal, it wobbles gently between sustain and release.

On the flip side, "Kurrikulum Vitae" flexes LTS mechanics, with rascal shifts in a groove that feels simultaneously ancient and totally new, amassing a depth of textures and tones towards a skanking peak.

"999" seals the deal with multilayered distortions enveloped into ghostly undertones and reverbing crunches, half-step of being a techno-artefact and a dazzling sound puzzle, made of a loopy melody edging towards poise.

Words by __ORSHI

Samuel van Dijk steps forward as Multicast Dynamics to present his next full length of mesmerizing deepness on A Walking Contradiction. As ever, when van Dijk puts on his Multicast Dynamics disguise, he abducts his listeners to places where breathtaking soundscapes and pitch black ambience take over. When you are in these imaginary places he creates a compelling story that is both exhilarating and soothing at the same time. Soundtrack for Something That Does Not Exist is nothing less. It's a journey across dark scapes and icy glitches, richly detailed with topnotch sound design that creates a spacious flow throughout. The subtle rhythms that appear once in a while show some overlap with recent VC-118A productions, which makes this a very complete piece of work that shows the excellence of a producer that never stops improving himself.

The new project of the pianist & composer Alex MONFORT delivers beautiful contemporary soul-jazz songs influenced by rap, hip-hop, alt R’n’B’ and neo soul.

Tight beats, unique Rhodes sound and soothing harmonies propel the splendid vocals of Franco-Cameroonian singer Nina Tonji.

Breeding in open air since 1964, Sir James and King Johnny are the figureheads of the mysterious L'ENTOURLOOP collective. Feed with good grains from Sounds Systems, vinyle's culture (Scratchs / Beatmaking / Sampling) and rocked by the epic dialogues of a certain cinema, L'ENTOURLOOP concocte with love a music half-way between Kingston, London and New York! After rocking more than 300 scenes around the world, the two unflagging ambassadors continue to surprise us on stage. Well accompanied by the incredible Bermudian MC Troy Berkley and the maestro N'Zeng at the trumpet, L'ENTOURLOOP gives us an eclectic live and survitaminated at each of its outings!!

The million-selling self-titled duet album by Roberta Flack and Donny Hathaway was the breakthrough record for Flack. Donny already enjoyed some commercial success, but their hit singles “You’ve Got a Friend” and “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feelin’” put Roberta on the radar. The sensitive and emotional masterpiece can be seen as one of the best duet albums of all time. It was the album’s third single “Where Is the Love” which dominated the US radio for almost a year, and reached the fifth spot in the Billboard Hot 100. The album itself shows a work of great depth and tenderness, with some of the most impressive vocal harmonies you’ll ever hear. After the success of the album Flack and Hathaway recorded sporadically together throughout the ‘70s, until Hathaway’s tragic death in 1979.

Follow-up album to cult-classic debut, Mantra Moderne.

‘Melodi’ is the second album from captivating duo Kit Sebastian (aka Kit Martin and Merve Erdem). Those familiar with the band's cult classic 2019 debut record 'Mantra Moderne' will instantly recognise their unique sound that blurs boundaries of world music, jazz and psychedelia. Not to be content replicating the same album, sonically the feel of ‘Melodi’ is a maturation. It is more diverse and provides glimpses into many different worlds from the Italian Riviera to the mountains of the Caucasus, the beaches of Bahia to the city streets of Istanbul and Paris. This joyous merging of soundscapes evokes a borderless planet with music as an international language, belonging everywhere and nowhere.

‘Melodi’ is imbued with Kit Sebastian's love of vintage records and world cinema, but it is not a retro homage. It celebrates its influences but is very much a modern record, being simultaneously brand new and retro. This is a credit to the duo's craft as musicians and songwriters, presenting their influences as a circular interaction between the present and the past rather than a linear one.

The music was written during the first UK lockdown and recorded that summer, a time of opening up that only briefly existed. In a world with a slower pace than before the Covid crisis, the band were able to spend more time experimenting in the studio. The album’s range of instrumentation has expanded from the previous record to include zithers, harpsichords, congas, bongos, bulbul tarang, and a mock-up choir on top of the synthesizers, balalaikas, organs, and saxophones. Session musicians and friends were also booked to introduce trumpet and string sections giving the album an added depth and orchestral texture. Despite the added complexity, the album was recorded using the same techniques employed for the previous album with various tape machines, bouncing back between cassette and ¼” tape for practicality and sonic abstraction. To pierce through this abstraction, the vocals are intentionally more expressive. Merve took cues from the Turkish singers of her youth, adding a slightly more melancholic, darker and more reflective style than 'Mantra Moderne’. Rooted in observations from everyday life, they speak often about the worlds and thoughts that arise from the end of the night.

Like with many of the best albums, the record seems over all too soon and has you instantly wanting to play it again. On each listen you decide on a track that you think is your favourite from the album only for it to be replaced with a different one on the next listen. The songs and production have hidden depths that seem to evolve and morph the more you devour them. Moments of pure pop, moments to fall in love, moments to contemplate. This journey is rich in musical vitamins and nourishment, but like all the best things still leaves you wanting more.

Repress!

Mint Condition - A record label focused on excavating the outer fringes of classic House and Techno. Unreleased mixes, classics, overlooked gems and never heard before material, mined from the last 30+ years of contemporary dance music are the order of the day. From Chicago, Detroit and New York to London and beyond. Mint Condition have got their digging hats on to bring you exclusive heat and those rarer than rare jams that have been in your wants list for years. Dig in....

Tobias Menguser, AKA Leon De Winter, was a very influential figure in the 90's Frankfurt techno scene, releasing around 100 records under various aliases, including collaborations with Ricardo Villalobos, but it was his Leon De Winter alias that really caught the ears of legendary London label Eukahouse, who originally releases this 12" all the way back in 1997. A one-off, it is not only unique in its sound design but also genre defying, spanning deep house, tech-house, techno, electro and breaks.
A-Side 'Apollo Jazz' is truly that, sounding like it was composed from a freeform jam on a trip to the Moon. Opening with emotive chords, the track lifts off and builds, melodies effortlessly twist and turn, superbly pulling together a variety of well crafted synths, bass and percussion whilst keeping the energy to the fore. Over to the B-Side, 'Metamat', is bold and more playful in its execution, more sonic trickery abounds as the opening riffs and breakbeat percussion give way to a solid 4/4. The bass is as memorable as it is quirky, but again it's the strength in the way all the elements build and combine that creates some real tripped-out musical moments without ever losing its dance floor appeal.

This is one of Tobias's most sought after releases and it's no wonder his collaborative work with Ricardo Villalobos is legendary. The tracks themselves have remained exciting and relevant, achieving cult status amongst the most discerning DJs, record collectors and music heads alike. Legitimately re-released with the full involvement of Tobias Menguser, lovingly remastered by London's Curve Pusher from the original DATs especially for Mint Condition. 100% legit, licensed and released. Dug, remastered, repackaged and brought to you by the caring folks at your favourite reissue label - Mint Condition!

Garden of Eden is more than just a music label, it’s an exploration of natural sounds, raw emotions and the essence of humanity translated into electronic music. Inspired by the bond between man and nature, the label champions an organic and authentic sound dedicated to those who feel music on a deeper level. With each release, we strive to create something truly distinctive, push boundaries, and shape new musical genres within the electronic landscape.

The debut release marks the beginning of this journey, featuring two original tracks by Costin, complemented by a remix from Priku, one of the most respected artists of the underground scene.

A must-have for any collector, this exclusive release is limited to 200 copies, encased in a stunning gold cover, delivering timeless tracks perfect for both the main party and the after hours.

Repress!

LOUIE VEGA RE-IGNITES THE DISCO CLASSIC 'DANCE (DISCO HEAT)' BY SYLVESTER
Grammy awarding winning producer & 5 time Grammy nominated Louie Vega continues to send dance floors into a peak hour frenzy with his remixes of disco classics on Nervous Records. The inspiration to delve into masters from this era began when he started remixing masters from the SAM Records catalogue, which is owned by Nervous Records, and with whom Louie has a long history going back to Nervous' early 90's origins. Louie is that unique producer who has had success in multiple genres of music including House, R&B, & Freestyle and he has brought that talent to help re-ignite New York disco classics like Vicky D's "This Beat Is Mine" and Convertion's "Let's Do It" featuring Leroy Burgess, as well as charting topping disco hits from John Davis & The Monster Orchestra "Bourgie Bourgie" & "Up Jumped The Devil".
This time, Louie put his focus on a track outside of the SAM Records catalogue, and one that was an international disco hit that also crossed over to becoming a 1978 pop hit, namely Sylvester / Dance (Disco Heat). Using elements from the 1978 version and combining them with his own original musical and percussion contributions, along with new vocal performances from renowned singer Cindy Mizelle, Louie has refashioned and reignited this 39 year-old production into a 2018 club anthem.
This past year has seen Louie continue to fortify his position as one of the industry's most prolific producers. Remixes from his Grammy - nominated best dance album "Louie Vega Starring...XXVIII' have consistently sold out on its vinyl release and hit number 1 on charts on multiple digital platforms. 2018 will see collaborations with Kenny Dope under their legendary and world-renowned Masters At Work and Kenlou monikers, as well as co-productions with The Martinez Brothers and Joseph Capriati.
Louie along with Anané Vega recently created one of the summer's premier club destination at their Ibiza summer residency The Ritual with Anané & Louie Vega at Heart. He continues to cross the globe from Europe to South Africa to Asia and back as one of the world's most sought after DJ's, and incredibly is able to maintain a weekly radio show on WBLS for the last 8 years and his NYC residency at Cielo under The Roots NYC moniker for over 13 years.