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Motion I is the debut album from Out Of/Into, the collective formerly known as The Blue Note Quintet, featuring pianist Gerald Clayton, alto saxophonist Immanuel Wilkins, vibraphonist Joel Ross, drummer Kendrick Scott, and bassist Matt Brewer. The band was formed in celebration of Blue Note Records’ 85th Anniversary and embarked on an extensive U.S. tour earlier this year during which they honed a distinctive, progressive sound that is the perfect embodiment of the Blue Note ethos. “Blue Note has been such a wonderful home for the community, for incredible musicians, for creativity, for all these years,” says Clayton. “You can’t help but think about all those masters, all those heroes that you’ve grown up listening to. To get a chance to pay tribute and try to carry some of that essence forward is truly just an honor.”

Global icon ROSÉ has announced her first studio album rosie - arriving December 6th via Atlantic Records. The 12-track collection marks ROSÉ’s most personal and candid release to date, with her co-writing and co-producing the project in its entirety.

As a member of BLACKPINK, one of the best-selling girl groups of all time, ROSÉ has shattered records, performed on the most heralded stages, and amassed millions of fans around the world. On her own, the Korean-New Zealand superstar’s 2021 single “On The Ground” debuted at #1 on the Billboard Global 200 chart and became the highest-charting song by a solo K-pop female on the Billboard Hot 100. Simultaneously, ROSÉ has been an unstoppable force in fashion as global ambassador for renowned brands including Saint Laurent, Tiffany & Co, Rimowa and Puma. Her influence in music, fashion and philanthropy has led to her having over 79M followers on Instagram as she is a testament to the growth of Korean influence in music and fashion on a global scale.

Trapped Animal records is proud to announce the release of Despite Yourself Deluxe from 90’s legends Headswim, which has never been available on vinyl before.

For the first time, Headswim’s iconic second album is available on double gatefold vinyl, featuring 7 bonus tracks, including an unreleased version of their hit 'Tourniquet'! Lovingly released on double vinyl in a gatefold sleeve, this deluxe re-issue features seven bonus tracks including previously un-released tracks, including a previously unheard version of their biggest hit, Tourniquet featuring a string orchestra recorded at Abbey Road Studios!

The bonus material was collated by scouring through Sony's DAT tape archives, in this process the band and label found some wonderful lost recordings. The record will be available on either limited edition blue or back 180 gram vinyl. Despite Yourself, featuring the singles "Tourniquet" and "Better Made”, was Headswim’s sophomore album and documents the development of the band maturing as songwriters. “We were aiming for longevity and believed we had written a collection of songs honestly expressing who we were, where we’d been and where we wanted to go. The album was a declaration of intent, an expression of our lived experience, a light in the dark.” Originally released on 2nd September 1997 Despite Yourself reached 24 in the UK charts and would see the band tour the USA and Europe, make “several TV appearances (including Top of The Pops), film a couple of glossy music videos and get some mainstream media attention. We’d been given a chance and we’d grasped it with both hands.

* Dazed and Amazed Duo Color Vinyl * Fully printed inner sleeves * Liner notes by Larry Mizell Jr. // The album is named for the combs used to maintain an Afro hairstyle, and that's significant. The group's Ishmael "Butterfly" Butler said it summed up what they wanted to do with it: "It means the utilization of the natural, a natural style," he has said. Like with 1993's debut _Reachin' (A New Refutation of Time and Space)_, 'utilizing the natural' meant creating hip hop that blended jazz with the formidable rap skills of the aforementioned Butterfly, Craig 'Doodlebug' Irving and Mary Ann 'Ladybug Mecca' Vieira. Unlike that debut, it meant broadening to include guests such as Gang Starr's Guru, Jeru the Damaja, and Jazzy Joyce. Following the gold-selling commercial success of their debut, they here set out to prove their artistic prowess. This is intelligent, alternative hip hop that sounded like party music. Its lyrics are dense with wit, social commentary and politics - and its original inner sleeve was modeled on the newspaper of the Black Panther movement.

* Dazed and Amazed Duo Color Vinyl * Fully printed inner sleeves * Liner notes by Larry Mizell Jr. // The album is named for the combs used to maintain an Afro hairstyle, and that's significant. The group's Ishmael "Butterfly" Butler said it summed up what they wanted to do with it: "It means the utilization of the natural, a natural style," he has said. Like with 1993's debut _Reachin' (A New Refutation of Time and Space)_, 'utilizing the natural' meant creating hip hop that blended jazz with the formidable rap skills of the aforementioned Butterfly, Craig 'Doodlebug' Irving and Mary Ann 'Ladybug Mecca' Vieira. Unlike that debut, it meant broadening to include guests such as Gang Starr's Guru, Jeru the Damaja, and Jazzy Joyce. Following the gold-selling commercial success of their debut, they here set out to prove their artistic prowess. This is intelligent, alternative hip hop that sounded like party music. Its lyrics are dense with wit, social commentary and politics - and its original inner sleeve was modeled on the newspaper of the Black Panther movement.

You know when one of your favourite albums of all TIME isn't on vinyl, so you just HAVE to make it happen, right…?

With the kind permission of our pals at Best Before Records, we’re beyond delighted to announce the first ever vinyl pressing of Hey Everyone! by Dananananaykroyd - with gorgeous spot gloss sleeve, extra design flavour by original artist Keaton Henson and a bonus track 'Genuine LBS' - all presented on very limited ‘Pink Sabbath X Black Wax Splatter’ vinyl (never to be repressed in this colour).

A truly classic record, this is absolutely peerless Fight Pop. 'Liable to unite moshers and librarians' said a deeply impressed Pitchfork at the time. Let's party like it's 2009.

Critically-acclaimed German pianist Pablo Held announces TRIO PLAYS STANDARDS, the seminal new trio album which captures Held and his comrades Robert Landfermann & Jonas Burgwinkel paying tribute to the rich legacy of Jazz.

Reflecting on the album’s theme, Held shares:
"On our previous 14 recordings, Robert, Jonas, and I have explored a wide range of musical realms: my original compositions, classical pieces, works by my father Peter Held, and occasional tunes by some of my favorite artists. Delving deeply into each of these musical environments has played a pivotal role in shaping the trio's sound over these years. Now, we've finally fulfilled a dream: recording an album of standards."

The album showcases Pablo Held’s unique arrangements of broadway classics as I’LL NEVER BE THE SAME, YOU WON’T FORGET ME and LAST NIGHT WHEN WE WERE YOUNG, reworkings of Charlie Parker’s BARBADOS and Bill Evans’ VERY EARLY, alongside Held’s own JUST IN CRAME - a contrafact on the old standard JUST IN TIME - each imbued with the trio's signature improvisational spirit and collective synergy.

Pablo Held, who’s not only known as a revered pianist and composer, but also a musical researcher, knows the value of deep study and cherishes its effect on his work: "The more I study this music, the more it propels me forward," says Held, echoing the sentiment of his personal hero Wayne Shorter about the past being “the flashlight that guides the way into the future”.

The trio recorded the album at Jazz Campus Basel’s pristine studio facilities on October 29th 2023 in front of a live audience of attentive students who witnessed the trio’s explorations first handedly in this intimate setting.

TRIO PLAYS STANDARDS was recorded and mixed by recording engineer Daniel Dettwiler and mastered by Christoph Stickel, who mastered the majority of Pablo Held’s expansive discography as a leader.
Legendary vocalist Norma Winstone penned the liner notes, and its timeless cover design is by Christian Schäfer, featuring captivating photos by Linghuan Zhang.

TRIO PLAYS STANDARDS marks the 6th release on Held’s own label HOPALIT RECORDS.
After the success of the previous trio album WHO WE ARE, Held favors a double-release method for his records going forwards: a 6 month pre-release period, where the album is exclusively available via Bandcamp and on live shows, leading into the official release in stores and streaming platforms.

As an additional incentive every (physical & digital) copy includes the bonus album TRIO PLAYS STANDARDS - LIVE, recorded during Held’s own curated festival STANDARDS WEEK at the LOFT Köln in 2022.

London based label Natural Selection present their forthcoming release in the form of a 4-track 12" EP, courtesy of Annie Hall, entitled "Atomic 20", ft. remixes from label affiliates Plant43 & Kodah. Mastered by Dadub Studios, Berlin and cut by Simon at The Exchange Vinyl.

Born in Madrid, Annie Hall has been heavily active on the Electronica, IDM and Detroit circuits since 2007 and has seen her music released by the most highly esteemed of Electro labels such as Central Processing Unit, Delsin Records, 20/20 Vision, Detroit Underground, Semantica & more. She returns to Natural Selection, after releasing on 3 previous occasions since the label's inaugural release in 2021. Her track 'Panax Ginseng' (NS001) gained support from some of the most respected DJ's and producers worldwide, inc. Dave Clarke, The Advent, NULLPTR & more.

Atomic 20 is a beautifully crafted Electro release that maintains venomous aggression, amidst breathtaking textures and ambience. Hypnotic pads spiral into the ether, contrasted alongside heavy kicks, deep bass and meticulously programmed percussion patterns. Annie's eclectic and uniquely experimental style is fully evident throughout, taking the listener on an unpredictable, emotional journey, whether at home or on the dance floor.

The B side of the release features 2 well-placed, club-focussed remixes of each original A side tracks; B1 courtesy of Electro legend Plant43, with his immaculate remix of 'Goji Berry'. B2 courtesy of Natural Selection label head Kodah, with his power driven remix of 'Atomic 20'.

Label and collaborative musical collective, +33JOY announce their debut release, this first one from Bopperson & Bikbaye.

Born out of a meeting at New York’s annual Winter Jazz Festival, back in 2020, this 4 track EP entitled ‘The Wellness Project’ is a very personal project.

Neil Bopperson is a DJ, musician and producer originally from Yorkshire. Having travelled the world working as a DJ and chef, he landed in London for a while where he remixed afrobeat legend Dele Sosimi for Wah Wah 45s. Now residing in Paris, France, a sharer and carer of music in every aspect, he chooses not to follow trends but instead follow his heart, with variety being an essential part of his musical DNA.

Based in Los Angeles, Bikbaye Inejnema works as a cultural activist, writer, teacher, counselor and spoken word artist. He has a bachelor’s degree in Sociology boasting over ten years experience in social work. He works as a A.T.O.D. (alcohol, tobacco & other drugs) prevention specialist for Homeless Healthcare in L.A. He is also the Executive Director of The Conscious Youth Global Network (CYGN)

Bikbaye strives to utilize art to equip the youth with the skills to become positive, productive citizens. Focusing on diverse topics ranging from leadership development to financial literacy to health and nutrition, Bikbaye gives youth the tools they need to create empowered and enlightened content.
As Bikbaye says, “The goal is to flood the airwaves, the media, everywhere with enlightened art.”

This first release on +33JOY comes in the form of a collaborative project, with music coming predominantly from Neil, with a little help from some additional players - Sam Crowe; keys (Lianne La Havas, Little Simz & Native Dancer) and the saxophone of Nick Briggs; (Joel Culpepper, Poté & The Last Skeptik). All words and vocals are from Bikbaye.

After a chance meeting in NYC, where Bikbaye was hosting talks at The Winter Jazz Festival, speaking mainly about mental health and wellness in the music industry. His words really resonated with Neil, they connected and this EP is the outcome.

Sitting somewhere in the alternative hip hop world, music is used as a vessel for Bikbaye’s words to ring out. Upon being presented with Bikbaye’s recordings, Neil composed music and collected sound design accordingly.

Starting out the set is the stripped back ‘Wellness Is A Practice’, as the opener to proceedings the vocals take forefront and the message is clear. Found sound, an old crunchy keyboard and some guitar pulses keep the poem afloat.

‘Who Are You?’ raises important questions, directed at other artists and music industry professionals. Flute, choirs and spacy drums come together for an eerie and dubbed out moment.

Third track ‘Consumption’ conveys perhaps the most important memo on the release. Sam Crowe’s grand piano floats beautifully over the reading, really highlighting Bikbaye’s statements.

Finally, and with a more hopeful feel, ‘Changes’ was the last addition to the recording sessions. A sketch Neil had been sitting on for a while, DJ Bobafatt added some cuts and Nick Brigg’s sax solo opens this track out to a goosebumps inducing ending. The most upbeat of the four tracks serves as a perfect prelude to the club-ready remixes that will follow this release.

Carmen Rodgers' acclaimed 2004 album, Free, marks it's 20th anniversary and is finally making its vinyl debut on DJ Spinna's label, Wonderwax. A cornerstone of modern soul, this record highlights Rodgers’ rich, emotive vocals paired with lush, soulful arrangements. This vinyl release is a must-have for fans of neo-soul and R&B, offering a fresh way to experience the depth and warmth of Carmen's artistry.

Ben Lukas Boysen’s new album, Alta Ripa, signifies a seismic shift in his artistic journey. It revisits the foundational impulses of his youth, shaped amidst the serene beauty of rural Germany—a bucolic backdrop where his creative palette flourished. However, it was his move to Berlin in the early 2000s that electrified his sound, infusing it with the city’s pulsating energy and diverse cultural influences. Alta Ripa captures this transformative experience, blending the introspective melodies of his rural beginnings with the bold, experimental tones born from Berlin’s vibrant electronic music scene. This album is a testament to Boysen’s evolution, showcasing how geographical shifts can profoundly shape artistic expression.

Boysen’s fourth studio album under his own name, Alta Ripa is a nod to his beginnings as much as a hint to his future, and as a work, it’s almost contradictory in its boldness and humility. He invites the listener on a journey of self-discovery; both for himself and for them, describing the music as “something the 15-year-old in me would have liked to hear but only the grown-up version of myself can write.”

His last two albums involved working closely with other musicians, including cellist Anne Müller, flugelhorn player Steffen Zimmer, and drummer Achim Färber. However, inspired in part by a recent return to live performance, Alta Ripa sees Boysen circling back to his passion for pure computer music.

For Boysen, the return to his youthful musical language marks a major turning point in his career. It represents a departure from his roots in classical music – his mother was an opera singer and his father an actor with an appreciation for Wagner, Arvo Pärt, Keith Jarrett, and Stockhausen. Although these are still important influences, Alta Ripa encapsulates a new, exploratory interplay between Boysen’s careful craft and his ability to let go of some of the process.

The album’s title comes from the original Roman name of the town that Boysen grew up in, Altrip, where he lived until his early twenties. This formative period is central to the ideas behind this album, from Boysen’s parental ‘schooling’ in classical music through to his sonic journeys through drum and bass, Aphex Twin, and Autechre — all of which changed his idea of what music could be. The extreme energy of tracks like ‘Acperience 1’ by Hardfloor, ‘Tracks & Fragment’ by Cari Lekebusch, ‘Focus2 Implan’ by Jiri.Ceiver, and ‘Low On Ice’ by Alec Empire are also pivotal influences.

For Boysen, this time of his musical development also involved knocking down the pillars that he previously thought had carried his world. A key moment for Boysen was being given a precious (pre-internet) club cassette at school that featured artists like Source Direct, Photek and Goldie. Excited by this new discovery, he introduced his father to the song ‘Dred Bass’ by Dead Dred. After the song finished, Boysen Sr. turned off the tape and proclaimed it was “the end of all music”. This heated exchange sparked a new, and more mature dialogue between the two that involved them sharing and discussing music on a regular basis.

Boysen’s classical and jazz music upbringing might not be easily noticeable from the electronic palette that he uses. But it can be found in its bones; the structure of the tracks and their dynamic shifts. On Alta Ripa, he intentionally embraces a spirit of controlled chaos, churning out sonic ideas to see what sticks.

One of Brian Eno’s Oblique Strategy cards contains the phrase “gardening, not architecture”, and the trajectory of Boysen’s creative path reflects this metaphor. In much of his previous work he followed a sort of Brutalist architect’s approach; here, he was fully responsible for the tracks’ austere structures and planned them with deliberate care. But by sacrificing some of that control on Alta Ripa, he sets the right conditions for a dark and unpredictable, organic growth. It’s a push forward into a new world.

Clair Obscur, the new sub-division of Diki Records, is proud to unveil the latest gem from the duo Made On Sofa, formed by the talented Manu Kenton and Max Walder. These artists, well-known in southern Belgium for their impactful productions and residency at the famous Lagoa club, are back with an explosive track.



"I Love You So Much" is set to be a true anthem, built on a dynamic and captivating rhythm. Its hypnotic and majestic gimmick is sure to ignite dance floors and leave a memorable impression in the minds of the audience.



In addition, the second track, "Masterpiece," brings formidable effectiveness, enhanced by an emotional touch that will resonate with all hearts.



Clair Obscur, la nouvelle sub-division de Diki Records, est fière de dévoiler la dernière pépite du duo Made On Sofa, formé par les talentueux Manu Kenton et Max Walder. Ces artistes, bien connus dans le sud de la Belgique pour leurs productions percutantes et leur résidence au célèbre club Lagoa, nous reviennent avec un titre explosif.



"I Love You So Much" s’annonce comme un véritable hymne, construit sur un rythme dynamique et captivant. Sa gimmick hypnotique et majestueuse saura enflammer les pistes de danse et laissera une empreinte mémorable dans l'esprit du public.



En complément, le deuxième titre, "Masterpiece", apporte une efficacité redoutable, rehaussée d'une touche émotionnelle qui touchera tous les cœurs.

Trumpeter, bandleader and composer Matthew Halsall announces landmark new album "An Ever Changing View", an expansive, immaculately conceived project which presents Halsall"s signature blend of jazz, electronica, global and spiritual jazz influences.

Repress.

The Italo dance classic that Carl Craig sampled for the legendary 69 track 'Rushed'

Finally available again on Dark Entries


We are honored to announce the next 12 in Dark Entries Editions is one of the all time Italo Disco club classics: My Mine - 'Hypnotic Tango'. My Mine were the trio of Stefano Micheli (vocals, keyboards), Carlo Malatesta (vocals, keyboards), and Danilo Rosati (drums, keyboards) formed from the ashes of Italian New Wave group Ipnotico Tango in 1982. They shifted focus from the experimental post punk sounds towards something more commercial with which to try and enter the market, namely to make a record. At that time Carlo was studying in Bologna and he had heard about producer and arranger Mauro Malavasi famous at that time for the many hits produced for Macho, Peter Jacques Band, Change, Luther Vandross, Ritchie Family. The group handed Malavasi a demo tape and four days later they were invited to Fonoprint Studios to record their first single, 'Hypnotic Tango'.

Utilizing new electronic instruments like the now legendary Roland TB-303, Danilo improvised a simple but effective synthesizer bass line and passed it through the Roland Echo until something magical came out. 'Hypnotic Tango' was released on Progress Record in 1983 and became an international hit across Europe and US dance clubs in New York, Detroit and Chicago, capturing the imagination of House and Techno producers. In 1987 the legendary Frankie Knuckles remixed 'Hypnotic Tango' at Seagrape Studios in Chicago, with assistance from studio engineers Tommy White and Brett Wilcotts. Originally released on Danica Records as the 'Powerhouse Mix' paying tribute to the Windy City club atmosphere and adding his own "sighs" in the track as well. The Hypnotic Remix This reissue presents 4 mixes of 'Hypnotic Tango' including the 'Hypnotic Mix' only appearing together once before in 1990 on Rams Horn Records. All songs are remastered for vinyl by George Horn at Fantasy Studios in Berkeley. The vinyl comes housed in a jacket with original artwork and includes an insert with photos and liner notes by Stefano Micheli. 'Look on the floor and all is spinning round, Someone told me this was just a dance And take a chance I ain't met before..Do you think I really have a chance"

Tape

On Repetitions, New York-based Swiss artist and composer Samuel Reinhard brings us close enough to a piece of music that its systematic nature begins to buckle and fade. Across four movements, three pianos pursue their own respective threadbare motifs, which overlap at the hands of a predetermined ratio of duration. What unfolds—at first glance slow, melancholic, deliberate, even plain—is a study of repetition’s in-betweens, populated by unexpected resonances and delicate traces of notes in the process of being played by human hands. The three pianos are not in sync, but are nevertheless in relation, the nature of which shifts with the listener’s orientation and attention. Each piece within Repetitions arrives as a constant whole, containing harmonies and silences that are in a never-ending process of unfurling.

Repetitions is a joint release from Hallow Ground and Präsens Editionen and follows offerings by Kali Malone, Lawrence English, and FUJI | | | | | | | | | | TA on Hallow Ground, and Robert Turman, Magda Drozd, and Anna Homler on Präsens Editionen.

* Edition of 100 professionally dubbed cassette tapes
* special artwork by artist Jeff Rossi, graphic desing by Coline Houot

ON SAND COLOUR VINYL FOR FIRST TIME

Post-Punk? Indie-Rock? Post-Hardcore? The Van Pelt walked between all these worlds. Spoken/sung vocals, anthemic pop hooks, fiery guitars and a tightly wound rhythm section made them stand outs of the DIY basement scene they emerged from.
RELATED TO: The Lapse, Native Nod, St Vincent, Blonde Redhead, Enon, Jets to Brazil, Vague Angels.

ABOUT “STEALING FROM OUR FAVORITE THIEVES”:
90s NYC indie heroes The Van Pelt have had a lasting power far greater than so many of the other once bigger bands of that era have had. The sort of interest that has neither waxed nor waned over the decades since they disbanded, yet just mysteriously continues on despite their discography being out of print since the end of the last millennium. So what is it that sets them apart? Too soft to have ran with the AmRep or Touch and Go crowds, not hip enough to have made sense on Matador or Merge, ernest yet not histrionic enough to make it onto the “best emo bands” lists, not weird enough to be on bills with Arto Lindsay and Thurston Moore, etc. In a sense, their outsider status comes not from the wings, but from the dead center eye of the storm. The 90s were happening all around them, they were witnesses thereof, yet they emerged transcendent of it all. You Follow? Maybe it’s worth having a listen to see what I mean.
Barcelona’s La Castanya records is treating us with the first ever rerelease of the two Van Pelt albums to mark the 20th anniversary of Sultans of Sentiment, their benchmark album. They teased us in 2014 that this might be on the docket with the release of Imaginary Third, a collection of singles and unreleased Van Pelt tracks which were originally intended to have been the components of their third album, including the alt-famous “Speeding Train”. Now we’ll finally have access to their entire discography. The first album, Stealing From Our Favorite Thieves is an explosion of anthems belted out as if the war was already lost yet they were hoisting that tattered banner anyhow until there wasn’t a shred to salvage. The momentum coming out of that album had every major label in the States salivating at the possibility of turning them into the next Nirvana. Instead, The Van Pelt followed it up by pulling the van into the garage, leaving the engine running, funneling the exhaust into their lungs, and blissfully deciding to bow out of the race with the epic Sultans of Sentiment. Of course as the story goes, their intended financial flop was the exact opus that jettisoned them into the history books. Buy both albums. You’ll need them both.

BRAND NEW VINYL PRESSING ON GREEN VINYL FOR FIRST TIME

Recorded in 1996, the second album from this NYC quartet featured a new line up & sound. Clean, warm, spacious guitars paired with repetitive, hypnotic songs showcased the band reaching a new peak. Beloved by those initiated, it continues to find new devotees.
RELATED TO: The Lapse, Native Nod, Blonde Redhead, Enon, Jets to Brazil, Vague Angels

90s NYC indie heroes The Van Pelt have had a lasting power far greater than so many of the other once bigger bands of that era have had. The sort of interest that has neither waxed nor waned over the decades since they disbanded, yet just mysteriously continues on despite their discography being out of print since the end of the last millennium. So what is it that sets them apart?
Too soft to have ran with the AmRep or Touch and Go crowds, not hip enough to have made sense on Matador or Merge, ernest yet not histrionic enough to make it onto the “best emo bands” lists, not weird enough to be on bills with Arto Lindsay and Thurston Moore, etc. In a sense, their outsider status comes not from the wings, but from the dead center eye of the storm. The 90s were happening all around them, they were witnesses thereof, yet they emerged transcendent of it all. You Follow? Maybe it’s worth having a listen to see what I mean.
Barcelona’s La Castanya records is treating us with the first ever rerelease of the two Van Pelt albums to mark the 20th anniversary of Sultans of Sentiment, their benchmark album. They teased us in 2014 that this might be on the docket with the release of Imaginary Third, a collection of singles and unreleased Van Pelt tracks which were originally intended to have been the components of their third album, including the alt-famous “Speeding Train”. Now we’ll finally have access to their entire discography. The first album, Stealing From Our Favorite Thieves is an explosion of anthems belted out as if the war was already lost yet they were hoisting that tattered banner anyhow until there wasn’t a shred to salvage. The momentum coming out of that album had every major label in the States salivating at the possibility of turning them into the next Nirvana. Instead, The Van Pelt followed it up by pulling the van into the garage, leaving the engine running, funneling the exhaust into their lungs, and blissfully deciding to bow out of the race with the epic Sultans of Sentiment. Of course as the story goes, their intended financial flop was the exact opus that jettisoned them into the history books. Buy both albums. You’ll need them both.